Really well made points. I agree. Ultimately our governments should be acting in our best interests regardless of who did what back in the day. In NZ I think that means we keep our heads down and make supportive noises to our allies. The more people forget we are down here the better haha
Thank you Liam. I don't know enough about the Middle East to have an opinion, but it's helpful (and very refreshing) to read something with good information and not overly emotive.
Bravo. And now we are back facing the big lie problem. We are told Iran " has pursued nuclear weapons, or at least the clear ability to produce them." Who is telling us? Netanyahu and Trump.
Both men have credibility issues. People on their own teams, like the USA spy chief contradicts Trump. So do independent nuclear watchdogs. We have news clips from last century of Netanyahu, who doesn't seem to age, claiming Iran is producing nuclear weapons. He is like a broken record; but with the best spies in the world (including here in NZ) he is yet to provide a single shred of conclusive evidence. God help NZ if Peters and Collins back Trump and, by implication, support Netanyahu
Nothing in the IAEA press release to support Netanyahu or Trump. It is meeting tomorrow and with more evidence, post the bomb raid, it may be able to be more conclusive. Here is the link.
You've made the case that regimes such as Iran shouldn't be able to have nuclear weapons. Not sure if 'now' this is something the West has to decide - I'd say it was already agreed, which is why we used to have things like a nuclear nonproliferation treaty and a UN charter, until Trump successfully bombed and 'completely obliterated' them both over the weekend.
Even if all the claims you make against Iran were true, they would not justify the US and Israeli attacks under international law.
But let's look at those claims anyway.
First there is no evidence that Iran either wants or is in the process of building nuclear weapons. Period. Even the CIA could find no evidence. Donald Trump says that the CIA was wrong. Donald Trump will say anything. He has no regard whatsoever for truth, even though he names his social media platform "Truth social".
You say :
"Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the regime has:
• Seized the U.S. embassy and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days;
• Funded groups responsible for bombing U.S. Marines and diplomats;
• Backed militias that killed American soldiers in Iraq;
• Carried out assassinations and kidnappings abroad; and
• Armed proxies who threaten Western allies."
All these incidents arose out of US military intervention in Iran and neighboring states. They all took place within the region. The US thinks it has a right to use military force to impose its will throughout the middle east and declares any resistance to be illegitimate. Iran disagrees. Who is right?
Donald Trump is the man who tore up the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action agreement with Iran. You are defending the actions of a narcissistic madman, a bully and a liar, a man who is currently engaged in a programme of genocide in Gaza, with the stated aim of turning it into a gambling resort after its population of two million have been starved to death.
Liam, you are not sounding like a Catholic conservative. You are sounding like one of those Catholics who happily asserted that the fascists in Spain, Italy and Germany were doing God's work.
What principles of international relations do you stand for? Do you assert the right of the United States to attack any nation which the US claims is manufacturing weapons of mass destruction? Claims which were proven to be false in the case of Iraq, and are just as false in the case of Iran.
You are in effect saying that the law of the jungle should apply in international affairs, and that those with the greatest access to military force should be able to use it in any way they please.
Some think that the US attack on Iran is the opening salvo of the Third World War. To others, that seems far-fetched. While Russia and China are "allies" of Iran, there is no military alliance between the three states.
There is a consensus of opinion that Russia and China will not intervene to protect Iran from the US assault, so no WWIII - yet.
The real implications will become apparent if Iran falls and is dragged back into the US orbit. Then the strategic noose will be drawn tighter around both Russia and China, China will lose its crucial access to Iranian gas and oil, and if the US can drive a wedge between Russia and China (as Trump is trying to do by offering peace on Russian terms in Ukraine) then China will be greatly exposed to US attack.
China is the one great power which the US believes it must take down in order to retain global hegemony and a US war on China, supported by Australia and New Zealand, is always on the cards. Trump is a madman, but we have seen before the capacity for a madman to inflict huge suffering on the human race, and we have seen before how those colluding with or appeasing such a maniac can do irreparable harm.
New Zealand government take note. Try to imagine how your actions will appear ten or twenty years from now.
Really well made points. I agree. Ultimately our governments should be acting in our best interests regardless of who did what back in the day. In NZ I think that means we keep our heads down and make supportive noises to our allies. The more people forget we are down here the better haha
Embrace Hobbit status
Irony?
Our best interests lie in taking a firm moral stance. Not in making "supportive noises" to "our ally" who happens to be a lying psychopath.
Thank you Liam. I don't know enough about the Middle East to have an opinion, but it's helpful (and very refreshing) to read something with good information and not overly emotive.
Bravo. And now we are back facing the big lie problem. We are told Iran " has pursued nuclear weapons, or at least the clear ability to produce them." Who is telling us? Netanyahu and Trump.
Both men have credibility issues. People on their own teams, like the USA spy chief contradicts Trump. So do independent nuclear watchdogs. We have news clips from last century of Netanyahu, who doesn't seem to age, claiming Iran is producing nuclear weapons. He is like a broken record; but with the best spies in the world (including here in NZ) he is yet to provide a single shred of conclusive evidence. God help NZ if Peters and Collins back Trump and, by implication, support Netanyahu
What about the IAEA?
Liam.
Nothing in the IAEA press release to support Netanyahu or Trump. It is meeting tomorrow and with more evidence, post the bomb raid, it may be able to be more conclusive. Here is the link.
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-on-developments-in-iran-4
You've made the case that regimes such as Iran shouldn't be able to have nuclear weapons. Not sure if 'now' this is something the West has to decide - I'd say it was already agreed, which is why we used to have things like a nuclear nonproliferation treaty and a UN charter, until Trump successfully bombed and 'completely obliterated' them both over the weekend.
Even if all the claims you make against Iran were true, they would not justify the US and Israeli attacks under international law.
But let's look at those claims anyway.
First there is no evidence that Iran either wants or is in the process of building nuclear weapons. Period. Even the CIA could find no evidence. Donald Trump says that the CIA was wrong. Donald Trump will say anything. He has no regard whatsoever for truth, even though he names his social media platform "Truth social".
You say :
"Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the regime has:
• Seized the U.S. embassy and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days;
• Funded groups responsible for bombing U.S. Marines and diplomats;
• Backed militias that killed American soldiers in Iraq;
• Carried out assassinations and kidnappings abroad; and
• Armed proxies who threaten Western allies."
All these incidents arose out of US military intervention in Iran and neighboring states. They all took place within the region. The US thinks it has a right to use military force to impose its will throughout the middle east and declares any resistance to be illegitimate. Iran disagrees. Who is right?
Donald Trump is the man who tore up the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action agreement with Iran. You are defending the actions of a narcissistic madman, a bully and a liar, a man who is currently engaged in a programme of genocide in Gaza, with the stated aim of turning it into a gambling resort after its population of two million have been starved to death.
Liam, you are not sounding like a Catholic conservative. You are sounding like one of those Catholics who happily asserted that the fascists in Spain, Italy and Germany were doing God's work.
What principles of international relations do you stand for? Do you assert the right of the United States to attack any nation which the US claims is manufacturing weapons of mass destruction? Claims which were proven to be false in the case of Iraq, and are just as false in the case of Iran.
You are in effect saying that the law of the jungle should apply in international affairs, and that those with the greatest access to military force should be able to use it in any way they please.
Just to be clear you are saying I am like a fascist sympathiser now.
Anyone who defends gross violations of international law and a program of genocide perpetrated by a deranged sociopath is fascist.
I… see…
Some think that the US attack on Iran is the opening salvo of the Third World War. To others, that seems far-fetched. While Russia and China are "allies" of Iran, there is no military alliance between the three states.
There is a consensus of opinion that Russia and China will not intervene to protect Iran from the US assault, so no WWIII - yet.
The real implications will become apparent if Iran falls and is dragged back into the US orbit. Then the strategic noose will be drawn tighter around both Russia and China, China will lose its crucial access to Iranian gas and oil, and if the US can drive a wedge between Russia and China (as Trump is trying to do by offering peace on Russian terms in Ukraine) then China will be greatly exposed to US attack.
China is the one great power which the US believes it must take down in order to retain global hegemony and a US war on China, supported by Australia and New Zealand, is always on the cards. Trump is a madman, but we have seen before the capacity for a madman to inflict huge suffering on the human race, and we have seen before how those colluding with or appeasing such a maniac can do irreparable harm.
New Zealand government take note. Try to imagine how your actions will appear ten or twenty years from now.